You’ll see how this pertains to Ghostcrawler as you read the post.

I don’t really have enough readers for this to generate any real response, but I’ve been kicking around some math on the change to Fire and Brimstone which increases the bonus damage incinerate does to a target afflicted with immolate. Unfortunately, I don’t have any sort of sample of numbers to work with beyond a couple lists by the same guy in Elitist Jerks (seen here and here). I’d like to present preliminary findings, then ask for people to give me some actual, in game comparisons of incinerate on a target with and without immolate.

First, my math. Incinerate has 2 different damage equations, one for when immolate is on the target and another for when it isn’t. The question I’m looking at is how the normal damage changes when immolate is on the target. So let’s first look at the normal damage of incinerate. It uses the standard spell damage equation: M * (B + c * SP), where M is the total damage multiplier, B is base damage, c is the coefficient on SP, the character sheet spell power. Incinerate receives the 15% damage bonus from Emberstorm along with a potential 5% bonus from the glyph of incinerate for a total of 20%. The character that generated the above results seems to have had both. B is 629. WoWWiki says c is .71, .91 with Shadow and Flame…but wowwiki does not indicate whether that is with immolate on the target or not.

Unfortunately, discovering c is the problem. Ghostcrawler indicates here that incinerate’s bonus damage from immolate scales. Here’s the specific quote, which is open to interpretation:

Incinerate’s current damage bonus is not flat. It literally takes the damage done, multiplies that by 25% if Immolate is present, and adds it to the base damage. The talent changes that bonus from 25% to 55% (plus 30%).

What does “adds it to the base damage” mean? A naive reading tells us, basically, that incinerate deals 25% additional damage if immolate is present. Certainly the base damage is increased by 25% if immolate is present, but does that hold for the portion of damage contributed by SP? For that, we need to find c for Incinerate without Immolate, then find c for Incinerate with Immolate and decide if they’ve changed. So, what is c without immolate?

1.2 * (629 + (c + .2) * SP) (c + .2 is from Shadow and Flame).

Looking at the first post, we see with 1935 SP our tester had an average damage of 2725.9. Looking over the number set, the average of the min and max was 2743, meaning his numbers tended to weight lower. That’s a discrepancy we’ll have to live with in the sample size. That said, I think that a margin of error less than 1% is acceptable. Let’s check for c using both numbers:

1.2 * (629 + (c + .2) * 1935) = 2725.9

c = .649

1.2 * (629 + (c + .2) * 1935) = 2743

c = .656

c is likely somewhere around .65…about 6% off wowwiki’s reported coefficient. Perhaps WoWWiki’s discrepancy is explicable from the bonus damage gaining some scaling from SP? That would imply that c is different when immolate is on the target. Let’s check our friend’s test numbers for when immolate is present. His overall average with immolate present is 2938.8, while the average of his largest and smallest hits is 2936.5, a negligible difference. We know from the spell description that Incinerate gains a base of 157 damage when immolate is on the target, taking B to 786. We don’t know how Incinerate’s SP coefficient is affected by immolate’s presence; specifically, we don’t know if there’s anew c that S&F is added to, or if the old c is multiplied by some new number. We’ll simply use c:

1.2 * (786 + c * 1935) = 2938.8

c = .859

1.2 * (786 + c * 1935) = 2936.5

c = .858

As expected, no great difference in either average. With S&F, the coefficient on Spell Power for Incinerate without Immolate was .85. With Immolate, it’s .86. That difference is so small it’s much more reasonable to think it’s a sample error. That would imply that GC is either misinformed on the workings of Incinerate damage (a not unreasonable assumption, given past performance) or that it’s planned to change. In no way can we deduce that this is “damage done…[multiplied]…by 25% if Immolate is present, [added] to the base damage”. It looks as if Incinerate gains a flat bonus if Immolate is present.

Now, to the testing. Could any warlocks on the PTR please incinerate a target dummy. First, take off all armor and buffs such that your spell power is 0. Select these talents (and whatever prereqs needed): Emberstorm, Shadow and Flame, and then equip the Incinerate Glyph. Do not take Fire and Brimstone yet!! Set your combat log to only record damage you do, and start spamming incinerate. Discard crits, and give me those numbers. Now, put on SP gear and repeat the test, giving me the numbers and your current SP.

Finally, grab Fire and Brimstone and repeat. We’ll see if we can find the hidden coefficient or if Ghostcrawler is once again confused.

I will be doing this myself tonight.

on August 4, 2009 at 6:37 pmKotakeI’ve downloaded the Dr damage addon and tested the damage of incinerate. The addon shows you the damage that should do with this spell and is similar to the numbers that you got testing incinerate. I would like an explanation from a gm about this spell.